Through Our Story Podcast
Normalizing Healing from What the World Calls Normal Find Freedom and Hope from Sexual Addition and Betrayal.
Through Our Story Podcast
Our Story
What happens when addiction and betrayal threaten the foundation of a marriage? Discover how Alexa and I confronted our hidden struggles and found healing through faith. We share Alexa's powerful journey from a tumultuous upbringing in Chicago and Las Vegas to her steadfast determination to follow Jesus. Her experiences as a single mother and student at Ball State University, and her move to Las Vegas, set the stage for a transformative chapter in her life.
Join us as we recount our battles with addiction and the deep impact it had on our relationship. I open up about my struggles with pornography and sex addiction, and how these issues didn't magically disappear after marriage. Alexa and I emphasize the importance of addressing underlying problems before committing to a lifelong partnership. We discuss the misconceptions around marriage solving deep-rooted issues and share the significance of honesty, community support, and a strong relationship with Christ in overcoming addiction to build a trusting relationship.
From the raw emotional turmoil of uncovering hidden pornography to the pivotal moments of transparency and prayer that marked our path to recovery, our story is both heart-wrenching and inspiring. We share our experiences of establishing healthy boundaries, leaning on faith and community support, enduring relapse, and making significant lifestyle changes to support our well-being and spiritual growth. Our journey illustrates that true change requires ongoing faith and dedication, offering insight and encouragement to those facing similar challenges in their marriages.
Hey everyone, I'm Lester and I'm Alexa. Welcome to the Through Our Story podcast. We're here to share our story for God's glory.
Speaker 2:We're not only here to share our story, but we want to create a space where you can find healing and hope as well.
Speaker 1:Whether you're struggling with pornography addiction, sexual addiction or lust, or whether you're married or single, our mission is to equip you and help you find healing through Jesus.
Speaker 2:This is also a space for those who have been betrayed by sexual addiction in their marriages and relationships. We also want to help equip you as well. We want you to hear both sides of this journey.
Speaker 1:So just a heads up. If you have young ears around, you might want to listen to this. Later We'll be discussing some real sensitive topics.
Speaker 2:All right, so let's jump in and get started.
Speaker 1:Perfect. So where do you want to start?
Speaker 2:All right. So we are going to share our story here in our first episode of our podcast. We think that it's very important for you to just have the opportunity to hear our story, to see how God has worked in our life. So we just want to give you a little bit of background about how we grew up, how we got to meeting each other and what went on from there. I'm going to start off sharing my story, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, cool there.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start off sharing my story, right? So as I share my story, you'll see how God has prepared me, I believe, in my childhood to have a husband that struggles with this and how he just I feel like he prepared me a long time ago. So you'll kind of see those dots connect as I share. So I'm just going to jump right in. So I'm Alexa and I was born and raised in the suburbs of Chicago. I kind of was raised like back and forth between Las Vegas, on and off.
Speaker 2:My background or the household that I grew up in was it was a dysfunctional household. My parents never married. My mom was. She was a dancer in the entertainment business or industry. My dad had a drug and alcohol addiction. And you know, looking into my life or my family's life, you would never would have thought that we were going through all the things that we were going through, because on the outside everything looked great, you know, we had like nice cars, nice houses, we lived in really nice areas. So it just you never would have thought, but on the inside it was very cold and dark. I had two younger brothers.
Speaker 2:I felt like I had to, you know, take on the role of being their mom. In a sense, I felt like I, you know, had to grow up really quickly because my parents were not around a lot and I started living a very fast paced life at a young age, looking for love in all the wrong places. I got involved in sex at an early age I think I was like 13 years old drinking, smoking marijuana. I was really into my looks like, seeking attention from guys, and I really just followed other older teenagers because I wasn't getting love at home. So I just I was lost. But I also had this other part of me where I had lots of family pouring into me, showing me who God is, showing me. You know what it looks like to go to church. I did get involved in church but I still was, you know, one foot in, one foot out, trying to figure it out. So much trauma and dysfunction. At home I did have like this fire for the Lord, like I wanted to follow Jesus and his plans for my life, but I still was struggling. So as I got older, some more traumatic things happened. When I was 15 years old, I had a boyfriend who was older than me. He got shot and he died basically right in front of me and that was very hard. I still struggle with that today. For a little bit, and life just got really confusing and hard for me and once again seeking love in the wrong places.
Speaker 2:At 17, I got pregnant with my oldest son, braylon, and I had him when I was 18 years old. I was able to graduate high school with good grades. I was determined. There was just something in me to keep going. I did not want to stop. I wanted to go to college.
Speaker 2:I went about, like five hours away I think, to Ball State University, just me and Braylon. I was like in the middle of nowhere, if you know where Ball State is, and driving, you know, back and forth from Chicago was quite a drive. So doing that as a single mother was extremely hard. I was a full-time student and I also worked and he was in daycare, so it was just I'm glad that I got that experience. It was extremely hard but um, it definitely. God definitely did some things in me. Um, when I went away to school and just put this determination inside of me. But you know I still struggled.
Speaker 2:I left college after about two and a half years. I got into some abusive relationships with some men had a really bad abusive relationship that really resulted in me making some horrible decisions. That really resulted in me making some horrible decisions. I really struggled, believing, you know, does God, will God ever forgive me? And I just was extremely lost and I really, after a really bad relationship that I was in, I really just wanted to start my life over. I just did not want to live the way I was living anymore Like, but I also was chasing the world.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to chase success and I moved out to Vegas. I was about, I don't know, 25, 26, 25 or no, oh gosh, no gosh, no 20. How old was I when I met you? Like 24, I think, 24. You don't even know. Oh, my gosh, all right, so I think like 24, um, and so, yeah, when I moved out to Vegas, I was like that, that's it, I'm done. I'm not getting myself involved in any relationships. I'm just gonna, you know, just chase my dreams, chase success. Um, and God, I'm going to keep praying to you and I'm just going to keep trusting in you, but I'm going to keep doing what I want to do too. So that's kind of where my mindset was, but I'm going to keep doing what I want to do too. So that's kind of where my mindset was. And then the day I moved out to Vegas is the day that I met. Well, actually, I met Lester that next night, and I think we're going to stop there. And then you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come, walk up to where we met.
Speaker 2:We'll meet at that point.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I was born in Dayton, ohio and so I grew up with both parents in a household in very structured, disciplined kind of environment, and my father worked in the music industry and toured around the world and my mother kind of worked with him and kind of worked as a teacher as well. Um, she made us attend church regularly, um, not necessarily foster a strong relationship with Christ, but we're going to be a church week in and week out, and when they traveled sometimes I would go with them and then sometimes I would stay over at other family members' houses. So around the age of 10, I was exposed to pornography by the first time by a cousin at a sleepover when my parents had dropped me off while they were out working and touring, and can't really remember what I was feeling or thinking, but couldn't quite verbalize it. And so from that time to age 13, and from that time to age 13, I had kind of went back and forth. I graduated from high school. I was fully addicted to pornography, fully addicted to a um, uh, to coping through, uh, pornography and masturbation and um, just repeatedly, repeatedly seeking and searching for that fulfillment and for that dopamine hit.
Speaker 1:And so from age 17 until I graduated, moved up to college, played college football, and that's when things really took a turn for the worse with my addiction.
Speaker 1:At that point the pornography addiction was a lot more aggressive, as I was wrestling with an unfamiliar environment and dealing with a lot of different things that I wasn't prepared or equipped spiritually and mentally I coped a lot, and so that turned into a full-blown sex addiction at that time and a full-blown kind of alcoholic behaviors and partying, drugs, alcohol and pornography and sex, and so that was the environment I was in. That was kind of downplayed and somewhat welcomed, and so it just really really calloused those addictions and stayed in that cycle for five years. I don't think that during that time, I don't think one person told me I was doing something wrong, because it wasn't something visibly that people could see or feel or acknowledge and so. So after I left college or I graduated, I came back home and in that time, looking for a job, working with my father, the sexual addiction slowed down, but the pornography and the kind of the thrill of the thrill of uh, partying and hanging out was still there.
Speaker 1:So that was still running rampant, and so I think I graduated in 2010 and we met in 2014 july 4th, 5th, 5th, sorry, july 5th, this is not a quiz, we got it so, um, between uh, 2010 and 2014, all of those coping behaviors, uh, and the lack of community and resources to know and, and the lack of relationship with Christ at at that point in those years, uh, from 10 to 14, all of those behaviors just calloused even further. And so when I met Alexa, um, I was, I looked fine on the outside, but on the inside it was, I was a complete mess. You know, in these areas, and I think you can speak more into what that was like on your side, experiencing that and kind of your discernment and intuition as to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I? Well, of course, when I first saw you, I was like oh wow.
Speaker 1:Hubba hubba.
Speaker 2:But as we started to talk, because we started to become friends, we met in Vegas.
Speaker 2:Lester was out working and, um, we were introduced through family. But, um, yeah, I remember, as we started to hang out and become friends and things like that, I could tell like you were just trying, like almost like you were just trying to cover up something, like like there was just I'm like there's more to this guy, like you were super easy to get along with and super chill and and funny and nice, but there was just something that I couldn't pinpoint, that you were like another side of you that you were hiding, or that you were just trying to like sometimes overdo it, so maybe that you could hide that, which would make sense, like if somebody is struggling with an addiction or they're struggling with something with shame, of course they're gonna like I don't know what the word would be like overcompensate in that area, yeah, something like that. Um, but definitely can discern something was going on for sure, um, but yeah, as time went on, we started to um, yeah, we started dating in what so.
Speaker 2:And then I, um, my, my son and I ended up just moving to Ohio to be with Lester in December. So the ball started to roll quickly. But Lester was like my, he was like my superhero, like in my eyes, like this guy that was going to save me from my crazy life. And, um, he had, you know, you had your own home, your own house. And I was like, oh, this is perfect for you know, me and Braylon, and, um, yeah, I just wanted to be with you. I felt safe because I was coming from so much trauma and so much pain and dysfunction, just like the relationship I had with my mom, and just, yeah, I always wanted to just have like a home, a safe home. Um, and I felt like I could create that with you. So, and you, you were like, yeah, come out here, you know, like cause I will call you crying all the time.
Speaker 1:I was going to come out there yeah.
Speaker 2:You said no first but yes, because you had to finish up school.
Speaker 1:So let me, let's pause right here as well. This is something that I think the betrayed needs to hear, needs to know At some point. Walking through this journey or this process betrayer me, the behaviors that disrupted our, our marriage. Alexa had nothing to do with them, so the betrayer had nothing to do with them. They were things that I brought into the marriage that weren't fixed, weren't worked through, weren't observed, no attention was put on them.
Speaker 2:You brought the problem into the marriage. Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1:So it's not like, well, she was doing something that I didn't like, we weren't intimate enough, she wasn't beautiful or whatever it is. This was 100%, fully addicted to something.
Speaker 2:Some other source like she said another life brought that into the marriage and tried to appease our marriage and that second life all at one time.
Speaker 1:And I think, one time you told me too that you thought if you got married that it would stop.
Speaker 2:But I wanted to go back to that because you hesitated to get married and I gave you an ultimatum because we were living together and I and we had a, a really great friend. That was like, hey, you guys need to stop this. Like I think she told us that like when we I first met her she's like you live with her, she's like you live with him and she's like, oh no, that's not going to work. I was like, oh boy, okay, like I just knew like God was using her to speak to me, because I never wanted to live like that, especially in front of my son, and I did not want to play house and you did want to play house.
Speaker 2:I mean remember those conversations where you're like yeah, we should live together first before we get married.
Speaker 1:Well, let's be clear. None of this is coming from a godly or biblical view of how he wants us to live and how he wants us to pursue each other. So let's be clear about that. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:We both were just trying're just trying to just, I don't know, have our way. But, um, there was hesitation, um, and I I kind of felt like I remember that day in the garage at our old house when you were standing there and you had like your arms folded and I'm like we're talking about marriage and you were just stuck Like why do you want to marry me? And when I look back at that, that was such a big red flag Like you were just like running from the idea of it.
Speaker 2:Like you were like eventually, but not now, like maybe like five years from now. I'm like what? But anyways, let's not get stuck here. Okay, let's get into it. We got married yeah.
Speaker 1:And so obviously, with all of that, there started to be some issues. I think that there was a period at the beginning of our marriage that I was not acting out, and I think we had an argument or something happened, and it slowly, when it came back, it was just aggressive and it didn't stop from that point. And so I think that you started to see things. You would confront me about them. Hey, are you watching pornography?
Speaker 2:Well, no, I found porn on your some tablet thing that I didn't even know you had, because you had all this stuff for your studio and stuff, yeah, but I remember finding it Now that was before we got married. That was a sign, yeah, and you told me like I'll'll never do it again. It was just a one-time thing, like I was being selfish and just wanting to please myself, like just, you know, being selfish, or something you said and I was like, okay, and there here. So that was where I think a lot of people are in this world, where it's like, oh okay, you know, and then we just like write it off like, oh, no, big deal, we don't understand that those are big red flags.
Speaker 1:um so, and so let's address that. Like you, you're saying hey, you let your guard down, because culturally we're like uh, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the thing it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, just pornography or whatever. And so the other side of that is the reason she checked the ipad is because braylon, our son, liked, liked, liked to play with it, so it was the first thing that popped up. So if he would have grabbed it, it would have been something that he would have then been exposed to at a very young age yes he's only like seven yeah, six, seven, yeah, yeah, so so that was a big.
Speaker 2:That's a problem too, you know, like this stuff gets passed down to your kids. Um, and yeah, I know, I know some women that the father ended up having stuff on their phone. Their kids saw it and, boom, that led to the next thing for the kids. But yeah, so that was before we got married. And then, when we got married, things started to get rocky because we were arguing all the time. Lester was traveling all the time. He always traveled at this point, from the moment I met him Up until COVID is when he stopped, so he was gone all the time. That was a problem in our marriage. We were arguing and fighting over that and then, on top of it, we couldn't really figure out most of the time why we were fighting. So then there was a trip that came up. Let's say, what was that? 2017? Fall, that 2017 fall of 2017?
Speaker 1:the europe, I'm sorry, the europe trip 18 maybe 2018. I don't know several, and she was born in 17, so it was 18.
Speaker 2:18. Had to be 18. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, let's go with 18. We'll have to look back at that. Let's go with 18.
Speaker 2:You lose track when you have four kids. So, yeah, he went to Europe and I remember this was a big like you going out the country was a big deal because it's like you're going so far away. I didn't even say bye to you, you didn't even say bye to me, you packed your bags and left. Like we were arguing about I don't even know like in our arguments, like we weren't even really talking. I guess those were more of arguments, like we would just walk past each other. It was just cold, you know, um, but anyways, when you went to europe, I remember that night I just was like so upset and that next day or no, this was something that happened. So that night I went out with a friend and at this time, you know, I still went out and had drinks and stuff. So I went out with a friend and we got some drinks and I remember her sharing how she started talking about I don't know how porn came up in our conversation, but she started talking about porn and like you know, like yeah, everybody watches porn, like you know what's the big deal? Like, but I never even brought that up, we haven't talked, we didn't even talk about that. So I don't know if that was just like up, we haven't talked, we didn't even talk about that. So I don't know if that was just like okay, this is what I'm about to get myself into.
Speaker 2:So the next morning I'm texting Lester or texting you, and I asked you. I said no, I was reading. Sorry, I was reading a devotional, because I remember sitting on the couch like what is going on with us? Like okay, let me just open my Bible up. Maybe there's something here God can help me with. I don't know.
Speaker 2:So I look on there and I get on a devotional and this devotional was not about porn, but the first day, the first reading for that day was about a husband. That was. It was something about marriage, but he was saying how he needed to tell his wife that he was struggling with pornography, like how God put it on his heart. And I wish I could find that devotional. Maybe one day I will. I don't know, but when I read that I knew it right there. Boom, here we go. So I text him and I was very calm and I sent it to him. I said let's do this devotional together and he read it. And then he texts me right back and says I need to talk to you. And soon as he said that, I knew what he was going to say.
Speaker 1:So well, and I think it's the beginning of a long, stagnant, up and down kind of disclosure, if you will.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, you just told me that you had a porn addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so downplay minimized it and I thought it was a step towards living intentionally by just saying something. But yeah, it was. I felt I couldn't even verbalize what I felt, but obviously the presence of, uh, you know, the Holy Spirit that is really open up and share that I like just kind of had enough. Hey, I definitely have a, a pornography issue. Uh, wanting to minimize some of the other, or not maybe, but definitely minimizing some of the other behaviors and activities. But started with that, from that devotion and you know, from that that kind of opened the door for further conversation.
Speaker 2:And I knew that it was more than that.
Speaker 1:you know I could like I just yeah, it was clear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did, but God definitely prepared me for that moment because I was calm and I was like you were Okay, you know, but I knew that there was more for sure, but as we went on, excuse me, so, More lies and more discovery, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so what began to happen after that was a series of Alexa finding more pornography on my devices. Receipts for condoms lapses in my check-ins and availability when I'm traveling lapses in my stories that I'm telling her and holes in that.
Speaker 2:You also, too, would turn around for like I think they need to hear this part because this can be something that it could be common in their marriages but like you would deny sex for me sometimes. Like you would come home late and just like turn around and be like I'm tired, which is strange.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, that was common. I didn't even think about that. But yes, wow, yes, and that would come from just a very vigorous addiction cycle, binge, purge cycle, and so discover a bunch of stuff. She would ask me about it. I would lie and deny you know, and really in my mind like, oh, I'm going to take this all to my grave, she'll never find out, she'll never know. And so that went on for a while. And what was the thing that?
Speaker 2:well, I sat down, remember that one night you were in the living room and I came up to you and I said I know that you've done more than just porn, so are you ready to tell me, like I don't know, what happened? I just knew it.
Speaker 1:When was this?
Speaker 2:This? Oh gosh. You asked me the year I think this was all in the same year as soon as I found out about the addiction. No, that's not 19. It's 18. It's 2018. So yeah, I remember sitting down and asking you and then you looked at me and said are you?
Speaker 1:sure you want to know.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, but I will say for the wives, if you want to ask your husband to tell you everything in one moment and you know that there are some things he's going to be telling you you definitely want to be prepared for that, because that was like sitting through a disclosure and I did ask details of things and that was very hard. The next day I remember like calling your mom and telling her like you have to come get the kids because I can't move right now. Like I'm sick to my stomach, I couldn't eat. I I don't even know how many times I blinked, like I was stuck, I was done like my body, like I remember just sitting in the car not being able to move, um, but you know, I I don't know. It's a God thing that I stayed. Like I was like, okay, I think we talked that evening. Well, it wasn't that okay.
Speaker 2:Well no, no, no, no, no, not like. But in that moment, in that moment, I didn't just pack up and leave and say I'm done. And, of course, like if you were to ask me before all of this happened, like, would you stay with your husband if he ever cheated on you? All of us are going to say no, heck no. But I didn't know that I would have like, that I would feel the way that I felt, I was stuck, I was traumatized and all those things. But one of the first things that I did go do is I eventually went to go get some help. I went and found a support group at our church, eventually got into counseling, because, I think, because, as you got into, counseling and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you confessed to one of our pastors that you, we were in counseling actually with our pastors during this period and we couldn't pinpoint like what was going on in our marriage.
Speaker 1:Like we were coming every week. He knew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we just were like we're struggling with this. We thought it was finances, we thought it was communicate, like just different things. And then finally, after you know, lester confessing about the porn itself, he told him, him and his wife, so then that's when we started moving into um, um, like our recovery stuff. But that's so after you admitting after the year, like when you were in Europe and you were admitting about the porn addiction, you were already, if you started to do the conquer series, right, yeah, so we were already in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we were already in yeah, so we were already in, or you were already in your recovery groups when I sat down and asked you to tell me everything that's what. Yeah, that's right, because I would, yeah, I would have lied prior to yeah, that's right yeah, and my counselor actually was like, why did you do that? And I was like I don't know, I just needed to know, because she knew the trauma that I was putting myself through and it is definitely traumatizing, um, so okay. So yeah, from there we are.
Speaker 1:Gosh, we had so, so, baby, so wait, so wait, so wait, so wait. So, from that like, this is something that like betrayers and betrayed need to understand that this is a process, it is not a light switch, it's not going to just go on and then, off and there's not going to be without God at the center of it, without that relationship and without community and without healthy boundaries.
Speaker 2:Lifestyle changes.
Speaker 1:All of that lifestyle changes. Without those things happening, there is no room for progression, because even with those things happening, there will be a series of relapses. And so you know it's working towards that point where there are where your lifestyle and your walk with Christ will reflect that of how he wants us to live, and that's when you'll see relapse is stopped, mind clear up, ability to emotionally connect, and all of those things. But it will not just turn on and off. And so that's the reason for why counselors suggest not having a stagnant disclosure where information is coming back and forth or sitting down and asking that, because even after asking that, I wasn't in a position to stop watching pornography or stop one of the behaviors that hurt her or hurt the betrayed. So you know, you really want to be, I guess, aware of that.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's not like, oh, I found porn on your phone and you're like, oh, I'll stop, like you know, okay, yeah, I've watched it for the past year now and you know you see your wife crying and then it's like I'm, you know, he's saying all the right things, like, just because he says the right things does not mean that he is going to stop because you like, think about it. You brought this into the marriage. You've been doing this since you were a kid, basically teenager, whatever did 12 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's at that point, 25 years of doing that.
Speaker 2:It's not gonna take you five minutes to just stop and say, okay, I'm done, because this is a spiritual battle. Um, the devil is not coming lightly with this stuff. This stuff is real. The world is normalizing it, so that makes it even harder for men to want to, like, do the right things, to make the right lifestyle changes. Um, so, yeah, it's not a light switch type of thing, and we went through, you know, the relapses, the ups and downs, the lies, the I'm taking it serious for however long, and then you stop taking it serious.
Speaker 1:So it's um yeah yeah, as time went on, you know, we we had kids in between this time and we start moving towards healing defining things that God put in our path, and one the main gateway or access to me acting out profusely was traveling, because I was away from the boundaries that she put up. I was free to do what I want. I had no accountability software on my devices. I was in all different type of time zones so I could wiggle in and out of her accountability because I'm just in different places in the world. So that had to stop.
Speaker 1:And then, secondly, I had to actually believe it was possible and take the recovery serious, and so, in 2020, the worst thing in the world was the best thing for our marriage and our recovery Alexa had been crying out to me to stop traveling, and that was our main source of income. So I was physically, mentally and spiritually attached to the financial portion of it to support our family, as well as attached to the opportunity to act out and not have accountability, and so that always was a fight, and it was always. Whatever good points I was making, it was behind an ability to have freedom and to do whatever it is that I wanted to do yeah, and be able to drop everything and leave at the drop of a dime.
Speaker 2:Go ahead yeah, and the boundaries that I knew, like I knew the lifestyle changes that he needed to make and I feel like I knew those things because of what I watched my you know my dad go through with his addiction growing up.
Speaker 2:Like I saw when my dad was like, oh, I'm clean, I'm doing a do X, y and Z, like I I there was plenty of addiction around me growing up where I could see like those, I could see when you're serious and when you're not, and I feel like that helped me a lot. But you know, as we're getting, it's kind of like a movie. I'm telling you like our story feels like a movie because it like gets to this end, this beautiful ending. It's kind of crazy, I mean, even though you know we're still going through this and you know we're still working through it, but when we get up to 2020, so 2019 started to get rocky, like throughout 2019, lester and I knew like God would eventually call us to do this to help, but we knew that it wasn't time and we get to 20, the end of 2019, and I'm like, hey, you know, we need a full disclosure. We, you know, and that's when he started like backing out a little bit with just like I don't know, he was afraid.
Speaker 1:I guess you were afraid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you didn't want to do the full disclosure. So we were working towards a full disclosure and counseling and it just kept getting pushed off, pushed off, pushed off.
Speaker 1:I knew that he needed to stop yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew that you needed to stop traveling no-transcript January. No, your last relapse.
Speaker 1:No, so yeah, no, I'm just saying March when I stopped traveling, yeah, so I mean we can get into that.
Speaker 2:Well, your last relapse was kind of like the.
Speaker 1:Finale.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the grand finale.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was a big relapse when you were in Japan and I was pregnant with our youngest son, and that was probably the most hardest time of my life, because when he was out there, I knew that he was going to relapse. I just felt it and I ended up reading our disclosure myself. When he was in Japan, I started going through his emails, facebook. I saw messages from women on Facebook that he was going to meet up with and blah, blah, blah. So I knew like okay, this is about to happen. So I just started digging and trying to find all the information, because that's what we do when you guys do this to us we start digging. And I found the disclosure and I read it and after that I think I just wanted to just die. Um, we got into a big fight over the phone. We were going back and forth, like really bad, we were talking about getting a divorce. Like we wanted to get a divorce both of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we weren't talking it might have been, might have been. Some papers were signed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were ready to go Like, let's just be done. Like he was full of shame. So he just was like I can't do this no more and like, basically, like, would that be? Like I don't know gaslighting, like you were calling me crazy, like I was the crazy one.
Speaker 1:I mean we were both doing some questionable things.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were both doing some questionable things, that's another episode right there At that point.
Speaker 1:I guess let's get into a couple more points. Let's get into the vision you had with these demons that you saw, and then let's get into, uh, just just speaking through, like, from that point, uh till march stopped traveling and then what was the trajectory from me being fully, uh, like and I wanted to talk through like being fully addicted to pornography, uh, uh, sex, uh, lust, uh, all of those things, fully addicted to all of those things, and what was the progression of change and coming out of that to where we are now? But I want to just speak to where God touched your heart and changed, even while you were pregnant, and what that was like. So let's talk through that. When you put me out, you know so. So let's you, you let's talk through that. Like, when you put me out, you had me at the other house. Uh, we prepared to rent out and I was laying in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after the last relapse, of course you didn't come home, um, and I remember at this point, all I knew what, all I knew to do which I did do this a lot, but I felt like I did this way more at this point is my head was in the Bible. Um, I could barely eat. I just felt sick. I just I didn't even think that like Levi was going to come out with like all his fingers and toes, cause I'm like I'm not even taking care of myself pregnant, um, I was extremely depressed, anxiety was like through the roof. But anyways, all I could do is just pray and worship, worship music, read the Bible as much as I possibly could. And I remember one night, as I was just going through some resources and reading about this stuff and reading the Bible, I just cried myself to sleep and as I was dozing off, I just had this, this like I just went straight into like this dream slash vision, I guess, because I wasn't like in a deep sleep. So it's kind of strange that I had this, but basically it was. I saw Lester at our old house, which that's exactly where he was, which I actually thought you were at your parents' house, maybe I don't know, but that's exactly where he was. And there was the devil. And then there was demons. And the devil was like this big, disgusting, monster-looking demon thing I don't even know how to explain it. And then the demons were just surrounding him. He was sleeping in the middle of the floor because we had no furniture in there, so he was like on an air mattress and they were just like prowling around, like the Bible says that the devil does, but they were just like drooling and like making crazy noises. But Lester was laying there, sound asleep, with, like this smirk on his face is like, or like this little bit of a smile, as if, like I'm content right here. And when I like had that, I like jumped up and I was like, okay, god, it's time, it's time to go to war, like you put me in this battle, like give me everything that I need to fight this. So, or allow you to fight it, cause God fights this battle. But there is work that God wanted me to do. He didn't want me to just sit there and do nothing, but the the contentment thing made me realize like wait a minute, he's being fooled. He doesn't realize that the devil is trying to kill him and he thinks he can just keep living his life like this, not making big changes, not making big sacrifices, not completely surrendering his life to Christ, and while the devil is literally surrounding him trying to take him out. So I literally I remember calling my aunt, who is like my best friend, and she just like helps me through everything in life. But she was like Alexa, I want you to call these 50 churches. This is a list that I have.
Speaker 2:When I went through some stuff with my husband, I just started calling churches and asking them to pray. So I called a whole bunch of churches. I remember at one point I was on a phone on the phone with somebody in a church in Chicago and we're like on the phone crying. And it was, it was a secretary and she's I'm just like please help me. And she's crying Cause she's like oh, my gosh, your story. And she's just like I can't believe. You called and, um, I talked to all kinds of people and then I had friends in Bible study praying and my mom grew up praying at church. I mean, everybody that I could think of that prayed. I just asked them to pray.
Speaker 2:I didn't even care what people thought about me or him. I'm like I need prayer and all I did was pray, blast, worship, music, worship, and I, just, I, literally just that's all I did. All I did and read the Bible and I just grew closer to God. And what God showed me, too, in the midst of doing that, is he showed me the verse I can't remember the top of my head, but I think it's in Psalm where it's like you know, lord, search my heart, something like that. And, um, what he showed me was he wanted me to ask him to search my heart and stop praying that Lester will stop. Like, stop, like.
Speaker 2:Because my prayers were like fix him, fix him, he's the problem, he's the problem, fix him, make him stop. But really, god was like I want you to focus on me because there's a work that I want to do in you. So this journey definitely has strengthened me, because I knew at that point, like I remember looking at you and saying you know what I'm going to be okay, no matter what. Like God has a future for me and I'm going to keep following him. And I remember I came to the point of forgiveness where I was like I need to forgive which we will talk about forgiveness in a whole other episode, because forgiveness is not just a one-time deal. But we got to this point where I felt like you know, I was trusting God and I was like, okay, god, no matter what happens, I'm going to trust you. And we kept going through the ups and downs of you traveling, still kicking him out.
Speaker 1:So, and that happened one or two more times and then March, the world shut down with COVID. So you can look at it, as we tell our story all these times and we look back, you can look at that as an answer to the prayer or I don't know a horrible time, and for then it felt like a horrible time. For us it was an answer to prayer and it was the beginning of a real live shift and pivot. And the second thing that I said me and any other man walking through this or a betrayer walking through this, has to begin to take the recovery process serious. Traveling was a huge distraction and limited me from being able to focus 100% on Alexa, on God, alexa, my family and recovery. And that was the beginning of that process of taking it serious, wanting to lead other men, wanting to be clean, wanting to stop acting out what it was actually doing to Alexa, what it was actually doing to me, rewiring my brain, rededicating my life to Christ, like all of these things, and then learning to hear God's voice and be obedient. All of that started to take place in 2020 as kind of like a transition and so, going back for me on my side, the transition, like I said, wasn't just a stop.
Speaker 1:I talked to my counselor today about this. It was a you know, somebody stops gambling and picks up shopping and like, puts down cigarettes and picks up drinking, like you know, like and so, like the the guy was, was was so gracious and the first thing to go for me was the pornography addiction. Uh, he took it. Um, in 2019 it's april 2019 took it and that was the kind of the first to go, but that shifted to all these other, these other uh behaviors, uh and and so behaviors, and so it stopped there, never came back, and then he started peeling back each behavior, doing a miraculous work in me and then a work in Alexa to give the recovery process to him that's for my heart and to shape me in a way that only he could, and from her doing that, I genuinely believe her praying that and doing that, stepping back and allowing him to do it is a huge part of why we are where we are now and kicking you out.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, gotta have boundaries.
Speaker 1:I can't just let you the firm boundaries, which which, by the way, the boundaries, still exist to this day. Uh, some are. Some are a little lessened than others, but they're still there.
Speaker 2:And we'll have a podcast. Oh, we're going to talk all about that.
Speaker 1:But that was those boundaries her ability to put her foot down and set boundaries. So put her foot down is a hard phrase because it can apply so many different things, but putting our foot down with the right things and stopping the right thing, even the traveling like that was a boundary. You know, if I'm going to travel, we're all going to travel together as a family. It's not going to be just me off into the wilderness and so like, even that small of a boundary has kept us in a place where I'm in restoration and she's not triggered or back at that place when I was doing those things or acting out in those behaviors.
Speaker 2:And I want to say too, like we're not, like this is our story, so we're not saying that if you do all these things that we did, or you act like how I did, you act like he did, you're going to just be set free forever, because that's a whole other. I mean, here's another episode right here. Like you know, he still has temptations, god is never going to take temptations away.
Speaker 1:As he says in scripture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a whole other work that he does, that he's developed, that he's gotten closer to Christ, so we'll talk about that. But I don't want anybody to take from our story to think like, oh well, we just do X, y and Z. Well, I don't want a wife to hear this and say, well, I'm going to kick you out and put my foot down and then you're going to get better, like no, no-transcript. I literally thought that we were going to end up getting a divorce because he just he wasn't ready to make the big sacrifices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the big sacrifices that need to be made. He wasn't ready to just shut things down and just have a whole new life that Christ was calling him to. And God didn't show me. He didn't say hey, I'm going to restore your marriage. He just said I want to work on you. So I was honestly scared, but the Holy Spirit was holding me up and I was trusting in Him. So everybody's story is different. We work with a lot of different couples and some couples have divorced, Some are almost divorcing, and so it's just yeah. Don't look at our story and think like this is just, oh, this is just how you get from point a to point b. Of course, we are here to try to help equip marriages and we want marriages to last. That's why we're doing this. Um, but even if a marriage doesn't last like, you still have to live your life. You still need to be taking the right steps.
Speaker 1:So for the betrayer. This was something that I always wrestle with. I always tell just everybody I'm very honest with this, like rather we stay together or we didn't work on this or work with me through this, I would just take it to the next relationship, and not even marriage or a woman, just every other relationship, every other male friend, my children, all the, all the other relations. I would just move from one thing to another and, super important, that, like what she's saying, putting your foot down with saying putting your foot down with, I guess, addressing it and dealing with it head on is extremely important to do.
Speaker 1:And so, in closing, from that point, there were a series of steps. There was a series of steps of us getting more involved in this ministry and leadership and counseling and the boundaries accountability groups. And I'm sorry maybe I shouldn't say this, but men are. I think it's my humble opinion, men are not as smart as women and it just takes us longer. And going through that process over and over and over, at some point it clicked and it started to make sense and resonate at a deeper level. And it started to make sense and resonate at a deeper level and that always helped. That always helps and that helped me with putting away all those other activities hanging out with all those other people.
Speaker 1:Somebody said to me, my cousin reached out and said man, I'm happy for you, I realized that you had to. This is a cousin I was very close to. Man, I'm happy for you, I realized that you had to. This is a cousin I was very close to, didn't talk to for three years. He said hey, realize that you had to cut yourself off to grow and I'm happy for you, I'm happy to see where you are. And there were friends that we had to cut out of our life, never spoke to didn't understand what we were doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had to stop a lot of things. We don't watch certain things anymore. I mean we pretty much watch pure flicks, uh, sports if the commercials get crazy.
Speaker 2:They know I'm turning the tv on for sure but um, yeah, we, we don't listen to certain music anymore. We don't did, I say, drink. If we go to gatherings and stuff and there's too much drinking, too much craziness, like we're going out, because those are both triggers for both of us. I mean, and we'll get into all of these different topics and things and you know we'll, we're going to keep including our story in those topics and just share from our experiences. But we just wanted you to be able to hear our story so you can kind of know where we're coming from and see where God has brought us. We were able to share our story in front of our church and yeah.
Speaker 2:God made it very clear that he wanted to use us. The devil has tried to attack in many ways. I mean leading up to the point of sharing our story with our church. I remember a summer where I had panic attacks every single day for a month. And you know there's other things too that the enemy is just try to like stop, just slow us down and distract us with, but this is a constant battle. We're not here to say that we're done, like we are still having to live a different way. We are still. We still have struggles. We still, you know, we still argue, I still get triggered. We still fight Like we still have things we're working through. So we're not here to say that it's all good and cause. It'll never be all good on this earth. So, but you're cutting me off, thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm not cutting you off, so we uh, yeah it's hard, you guys, to share our story cause there's so much to it and there's a lot of things we didn't say but we could keep you here for like three hours. But we're not going to do that because there's so much to share. But you'll hear more in more episodes.